Welcome to the Great EU Debate
Posted on 08. Oct, 2009
It’s our intention to have a full-scale, national debate about Britain’s future relationship with the European Union. Whether you believe that the EU is a great thing or a costly disaster, and whether you believe a different future is possible or that European integration is inevitable, you’re invited to take part!
We’ll be posting a host of different articles, book extracts, videos and interviews here on the blog and on the video section in the coming weeks, starting on Monday 9th November. For now, though, make sure your pre-order your free copy of Ten Years On, here
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alan broomhead
03. Nov, 2009
if this was a true democracy we now live in we would be
allowed a vote to either leave the e.u. or stay in it ,but of
course this wont happen under the supreme soviet in number 10, as our rights are being eroded all the time,as noone is allowed a opinion if it differs from the governments,this proves it with them contradicting the advice of our scientists and military,in fact i think brown and
his minions are trying their damndest to see our army
decimated.in my opinion there are too many ex communists and the like in our government today.
James McDowell
03. Nov, 2009
For centuries the europeans especially France,Germany, and Spain, have been jealous of Great Britain and the Empire that it created. Which in time developed into the greatest trading nation of all time.
Through the creation of the Commonwealth we introduced trade with Canada,South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, India, the Carribean Islands etc.
Both France and Germany were jealous of this trade and created the EU in retaliation, they adapted a ploy that the UK was not welcome unless it gave up its trade with the Commonwealth, and of course in due time Ted Heath the Prime Minister walked into the TRAP.
In my opinion Heath, and Blair should have been tried as traitors to the U.K.
Bruce Shaxson.
03. Nov, 2009
It has been confirmed today that our last undemocratic
‘political’ party has reneged on its commitment to allow us a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty!
Good bye dear old England and our Commonwealth of
Nations!
We are now completely consumed by the undemocratic and dictatorial monstrosity known as the E.U.
Goodbye too to our undemocratic and now useless MP’s.
Close down Westminster parliament and turn into a gymnasium for our deserving O.A.P’s. Bruce shaxson.
MAXIE SMITH
03. Nov, 2009
This Country has been totally dessimated by this current Government and our attachment to the EU. Our Health Service cannot cope with the demands made upon it by a massive influx of immigrants. Our Education Service is a joke with , in certain areas, classes of 35-40 children, few of whom have English as their first language. Our Police have gravitated into a collection agency for the Treasury via the motorist, because there is no Justice left to promote for the vast majority of law abiding citizens. They only respond in force when a so called celebrity has lost their cat, not when an older person has been robbed!
Our MP’s are more interested and therefore focussed upon their expenses rather than the Country. Our Prime Minister looks toward his cronies in Europe to further expand his Global standing and is willing to agree to anything to appease them He has completely emptied our “savings” and left us with a massive debt whilst he goes off into the sunset with a massive gold plated pension; achieved by taking the Country to the verge of bankrupcy and the dessimation of social order. “Proud to be British”?
Gerald-Odeston MacManus
04. Nov, 2009
Cameron’s word has proved to be worthless. In four weeks time control and governance of our country will be wholly subsumed by the now, openly acknowledged european union empire and our parliament will be utterly useless and wholly redundant.
We,British Subjects will be no more than vassal ciphers of Brussels. We must withdraw completely from the whole crooked, corrupt and antidemocratic Union. I suppose it must be UKIP to lead us as Cameron’s an EU sympathiser – manipulator at heart; and thus even more deceitful than Brown. Heath. Blair and Brown will never be forgiven. A referendum is now vital to give us a fresh start. it’s all very sad for our once great country !
\Mrs D.J.Canham
04. Nov, 2009
I do not expect you will put my comments on your website, which is not a discussion, but a rant..
I am very proud of my country and am pleased that we have a minimum wage,freedom of information, an ability to consult European Human rights if all else fails. I am pleased that the European Union has invested in infrastructure in parts of this country that had been neglected for years. There may be corruption, but that is “the pot calling the kettle black.”
MOST OF ALL, i AM GLAD THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN A EUROPEAN WAR FOR 62 YEARS.
I am tired of Rupert Murdoch’s views endlessly reiterated.
Disillusioned
05. Nov, 2009
Mrs D.J. Canham, your comments would be valid if it weren’t for the fact that we are the nation that instigates most of the Euro Legislation, especially in the field of Health & Safety. I live in France and believe me the French pay about as much concern to H & S and sanitary type issues as we did in our country 50 years ago.
If the UK had stayed still for the last 34 years we might justifiably be criticised. The reality is, where we lead, others tend to follow – thats as true in Europe, as it is in most parts of the developing world… You will not find many copies of German or French establishments around the world but you would have great difficulty in missing the obvious copying of our establishments – wherever you are..
As regards not being involved in European wars, you have obviously forgotten Bosnia and with regard to infrastructure the whole of Europe is dining out on our contributions. Even comparable countries such as France get far more Infrastructure assistance than the UK, although I will admit that is mostly because this current incompetent government has woefully failed to apply for Infrastructure Funding that is/was readily available, on occasions returning funds that were given, because they couldn’t be bothered to set up the project management to utilise the funds – disgraceful!
Richard
05. Nov, 2009
Unlike apparently every other occaision when we could argue policy we either just rolled over and accepted it or had negotiators who could not argue (could not say Nein or Non either)
There are policy areas in Lisbon treaty as now ammended to the Treaty of Europe that allows (says there should be) both common policy within the Union and that it should also be to improve the lot of all the members of the Union.
GB Ltd needs a few more of the rules that relate to the expenses and conditions of employment to be brought into line across the whole union rather than just reduced to the lowest common denominator as everyone else will wish to do
In this respect we also need to revert several areas of current UK policy (employment, Immigration & Asylum status) to reflect what is being practised by our nearest neighbours just across the channel. We can also begin a transition period of retrospective change for all those currently here by whatever means of arrival rather than just allowing exemption
We have to adjust the long lasting perception that large profits can be achieved in very short timescales. This led in the past to large cost increases that resulted in less requirement for the product or service that further spiralled with increased costs. It is probably half the problem in that the UK has few means of generating income and reducing our ever growing need for imports
As a final thought the education system would have been “dumbed down” whatever interaction we had with Europe. It is to do with the case of not hurting any feelings when they did not succeed or were not the best. It is not directly down to class size. I was in a junior school class of over 40 and a senior (just turned comprehensive in the early 70’s) of over 30 and around 50% as against the expected average of around 20% went on to achieve Higher Education qualifications
Robyn
06. Nov, 2009
Disappointed that Cameron has broken his cast iron guarantee promise. We need our sovereighnty over socia l, immigration ,trade&laws. He has 5 years to deliver!
It’s up to the new breed of euroscepticTory MPs wef june 2010 to guide him – or get a new leader
Totally Frank Blog » The Great EU Debate!
06. Nov, 2009
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Bruce
07. Nov, 2009
Like many it seems Cameron has strung us along and we are now well and truly stitched up.
I like many other quiet people are begining to get sick of seeing our money wasted and subsidising the rest of Europe tat is not at all interested in becoming more efficient and competitive particularly in the field of Agriculture.
WE are let down by France wjho appear to help the Mogrants to get here rather than send them back to where they came from.
It is for this reason people are turning to the BNP because although we are all not racist we are now saying “enough is enough”. Moslem countries are not changing theior laws to accomodate the influx of christians who work or live there. We have to abide by their customs. In England we are are changing everything and iof we dont they go to the EU about Human Rights!
If we are part of a community why are we sending more troops than anyone else to Afghjanistan and in some cases countries are sending none.
I am sorry but we are being taken foir mugs and the sooner we say “non” and govern ourselves the better.
I just hope “Teflon” Tony does not become the Grand Master as he and his cronies have damaged this country enough already!
Roger Kendrick
08. Nov, 2009
What we witnessed last week is the beginning of the end of Democracy in the United Kingdom as we have known it for centuries.
The central element of a Democracy is that every few years the electors can vote to change the Government AND an incoming Government is not bound by the decisions of its predecessors.
The European Constitution, now known as the Lisbon Treaty, which was dishonestly signed by Gordon Brown without the referendum New Labour promised at the last election, further overrides this key principle of “Democracy” and an incoming Conservative Government can now only “negotiate” for the changes we would all like to see.
The best way to renegotiate our terms of membership of the EU is to make it clear to the rest of Europe that a Conservative Government will set out the powers which we want to repatriate to the UK and the maximum net amount we are prepared to contribute to the European budget.
This could be achieved against the background that if the specified changes are not agreed the Conservative Government will put our continued membership of the EU on the present terms to a referendum with the choice of prospering as a trading partner of Europe like Norway and Switzerland.
Now is the time for the Conservatives to restore Democracy to the UK; no longer should we be governed to such a large extent by this bloated, corrupt, unelected and unaccountable European Quango.
Tigra 07
08. Nov, 2009
I hate the EU completely and don’t want to be part of them
Im lucky to be living in a time where all of the main parties will fight for the gay vote and may actually help them when they get into power
Frankly loyalty is more important to me and id rather lose my right to mary and be treated equal than be European and ruled by people filling their pockets at my expense
I would give up most of my rights for a government that would actually put the Great back in Britain, give the people what they want and stop giving money to nations undeserving and unwilling to feed their own people before buying weapons
Tigra 07
08. Nov, 2009
Why are Tory and Labour all we can readily hear about and read about?
Labour will do anyhing to stay in power, including corruption and smears
Tories will say anything to get into power
BNP will undoubtably win more votes than ever and recruit more racists
UKIP just say the same thing over
The gay community is being targeted solely to vote AGAINST Tories for section 28 and support labour because of the rights we got from them
Well i’m thankful for what labour did but i still won’t vote for them after what they have done to his country
UKIP seem to be my only option
Yachydda
08. Nov, 2009
With the news breaking in the Sunday Times that the government has a policy of ” open door ” imigration that has and still does let in imirants without proper checks or tests, and includes members of the Taliban, it seems that corruption is the order of the day every day and that our membership of the European union is an enforced membership [by government].
David Cameron has proved beyond a doubt that Conservatives would carry on in the same fashion and that it has no intention to give us any vote on leaving the EU…
the question one has to ask is …Will Ukip do any better?… will the UK still be part of Europe [against our will ] after the next election?… or does this country have to follow in the steps of other nations suffering dictorial governments and turn to civil war?
marycurran
08. Nov, 2009
Another aspect of this is that an apparatus is being assembled which could be a convenient tool for oppression.
Europe will almost certainly become one of the most surveilled places in the world. Google http://www.ecln.org and http://www.statewatch.org.
This surveillance will enable the EU to stifle dissent and control us politically. Some of this surveillance, which is already taking place, (eg communications data retention), originated from the UK Govt but were readily adopted by the power hungry EU.
And goodbye to our ancient rights such as habeas corpus: there are indications that the EU wants to harmonise states’ legal systems, and that the norm will be continental, civil law rather than the English common law system, which would afford us fewer rights.
Moreover, UK citizens have already been victims of the EU Arrest Warrant, and have been arrested and taken to other EU countries for incarceration for anything up to 18 months before coming to trial;, without a proper case being made against them.
And the EU paramilitary police force is waiting in the wings…..
In conclusion, we are paying for our own enslavement and I cannot understand why so many people can’t see any problem.
I note that the media are publicising Lisbon now, but they kept pretty quiet about it before. There was a mass lobby of Parliament back in Feb, but this was not reported at all. Instead the media reported some protestors (not against Lisbon) who climbed on top of Westminster on the same day. One wonders whether this was a put up job to divert attention from the lobby.
george bowers
09. Nov, 2009
Since the ending of the WW11, the countries of europe IE germany france and belgium have been dying to take over great britain and all it stands for. Now with a stroke of a pen gorden brown has sold every thing this country stood for down the river. I wonder how much he will recieve as a back hander as did edward heath when he took us into this corrupt state which is supposed to be run by people who are supposed to look after the people. I dont think so. The people who make the laws for this so called super state are not elected nor do they even stand for any elections in any country. We are now being governed by a load of people who when questioned about the laws that they make. hide behind closed doors. is it not about time that they had to face some very hard questions on these laws.
Barrie D Smith
09. Nov, 2009
Having read some of the comments about democracy, let me explain that we do not have one in this country.
We have an elective dictatorship where the prime minister can do as he pleases with his sizeable majority, and party whips, who threaten de-selection if they do not toe the party line.
If we had a true democracy as they do in the USA we would not be in this position in the EU.
The power to govern this country belongs to the British people, not the Government of the day, and come the election these powers have to be handed back to the British people so thay can excercise their right to elect a new government.
So isnt it time the british people had the power to vote on wether we wanted to remain in the EU and subsidise their corruption or wether we leave and flourish on our own and take back control of our fishing waters.
I cannot understand why the three main political parties are so hell bent in handing over our soveriegnty and ignoring public opinion which wants this to stop.
Wake up Britain its time to stop this madness instead of sitting on our hands like the politicians do when faced with EU red tape, regulation and unwanted new laws.
marycurran
09. Nov, 2009
I read a comment above by someone who is obviously a Dim Lib voter, saying the EU has kept the peace in Europe since WW2.
This is a myth propagated by the Dim Libs, who are merely the EUSSR’s Useful Idiots. The Dim Libs are always whinging about our loss of civil liberties and rightly blame the UK Govt, but they just refuse to see that the EU also is a major threat , and one which we have no control over .
I read a comment somewhere which likened them to a “chocolate teapot!” A very apt description.
Nor can I see the clowns in the Tory party lifting a finger to defend our liberties either. Cameron’s pledge to repatriate powers from Brussels is laughable. As for Labour…..
Vote UKIP!
Sure we need to cooperate with other European countries, but no way at the cost of our civil liberties or on these terms.
It would be an improvement if at the very least the UK Govt could stop “gold plating” all Brussels diktats: no other country does.
Mrs K Bland
09. Nov, 2009
I blame Ted Heath ( may he rot in hell). He lied to us in the very beginning. We voted for a Commom Market not a Federal State. Did all those men die for nothing?
WellEyeNever
09. Nov, 2009
Dissolution Now,before more damage is done by ZaNuLabour.
Gorgon Broon has sold our birthright and a vote for English Democrats is a step in the right direction.
It may be our last chance to make a differance !
Clive Kingsley
09. Nov, 2009
Since the days of ‘grocer’ Ted Heath, we’ve been inveigled into this mythical “EuroLand”.
Tony Blair was the last of a line of discredited politicians who sought to drag us into an unelected, unaccountable gang of faceless fuhrers, who seek nothing but their own power (and the wealth which inevitably accompanies it). Tony’s sole motivation, whilst selling-out his country, was to become President of a third-world, third-rate state.
The common ag. policy; the unsanctioned foreign-aid; the un-elected and non-jurisdicial meddling with our laws and policies are an affront, and not something any free person should ever put up with.
We should be out of the EU now!
PLEASE, while it’s still possible ( and it is!), say NO now!
Get us out of this disgusting gravy-train, and stand-up for a world of elected, accountable government!!
Chris Jones
09. Nov, 2009
I cannot understand British politicians! They are all very concerned about the rise of the BNP but, should they be surprised? They have the nerve to attend memorial services for our war dead while they appear to relish betraying those who laid down their lives for this country. Alas, this country is now a nation of very angry people who see our way of life disappearing daily and it may not be long before we start to express our outrage through actions rather than words. It’s a very sad and frightening situation to be at.
Tony Morrison
09. Nov, 2009
Former Prime Minister Winston Churchill would be turning his in grave right now if he knows that this Labour Government is giving away Briton to Europe, why were all there brave men died for in the first and second world war, it make my heart bleeds, this is the reason I don’t vote and I will never, but maybe next time I will Vote for the BNP
Paul Bottomley
09. Nov, 2009
What a mess this Country has become………….
Our for-fathers (and mothers) fought for this land. Just yesterday, the Country marked the silence in recognition (well, most of us did)
Blair was there, Brown too (though he couldn’t bring himself to bow, presumably he thought he was too good for that…)
We have gone P.C. stupid and who are the biggest loser’s there, the next generation of kids, no conkers, no running in the playgrounds, it goes on
Immigration (where do you begin……..) problem, the biggest problem, no one is talking about it, no one is doing anything about it. It is totally out of control, and getting worse.
We live on an island, a small overcrowded island with no natural resources left. And, the ethnic balance is changing.
White Van Man (I use that term to describe the indigenous population of this Country) is at the bottom of the pile.
Are BNP or UKIP the answer ?
Probably not, but if they are not, then who is ?
Put simply, all the “elected” polaticians are fully aware that they have all been coasting for decades knowing, they will all be long retired when it does all implode, and it will…
Lets get some common sense back into this Country. Starting with a national reforendum, “are we staying, or are we going ?” (there is only one answer that is going to appear on the papers)
With that sorted, we can then get back to self governing of these lands, keep it simple, no quango’s, national government and regional government
Start with Immigration, or should I say, stop it!
Justice. Why are our prisons overcrowded ? Because they are not large enough for the expansion in population this Country has seen.
Answer, double or even tripple the capacity.
Police, double the numbers, cut out the P.C. paperwork and give them back the powers they once had.
Benefits, a massive drain on the working population. I would love a house, paid for by someone else, my meals for free, my TV for free, my prescriptions, for free, but so would you. The problem is, too many are getting it, and at your cost, and mine.
NHS, get rid of the layers of wasteful “management” and turn that back into nurses, sisters and doctors.
Private sector, let that be just that, but a stand alone sector, doesn’t “rent” NHS theatres for queue jumpers and, NHS consultants work, for the NHS, and only the NHS.
Re- nationalise Gas Electricity, Water, the Rail Network, turn them back to Social Services and not foreign owned money spinners that are bleeding the people of this Country
Social order, There is little left. People feel powerless and frustrations set in. Net result, street violence, domestic violence, alcoholism
Once, this Country was a World Leader, what have the Governing powers been allowed to get away with. It stinks!
ken spencer
09. Nov, 2009
Tony Blair said on becoming Prime Minister that we must have a proper debate on Europe, that debate never took place, because he knew he couldnt win it.
What is it with the leaders of most parties?
what is it that they know, but cannot tell us?
The question if ever we get a referendum ought to be “are we in or out”
Have our MP’s off all parties been bought off by this goverment’s relaxted attitude to expenses?
Gail Wharmby
09. Nov, 2009
I am absolutely disgusted that the European Court of Human Rights can overturn British Law. A British subject has just been extradited on fraud charges, but within a mile of where I live, there is a European murderer who cannot be sent back to his own country as it goes against his human rights.
What about my human right to live and go about my business without fear?
The only conclusion I can come to as to why we have been made to stay in Europe is to line the pocketsof all the E.M.P’s, choose which country they represent. They only have to hold office for five years and they can come out millionaire’s with their high wages and all “their perks of the job”. Ask any Businessman and they will tell you, there are no perks of the job, only staff thefts, which is what has just happened in Westminster. The E.M.P.’s were pretty quick to put a block on their expenses being made public.
Edward Heath said that when we became part of Europe, we would not loose Sovereignty, so what has happened?
Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and John Major has a lot to answer for. I would also like to know what pressure to bear the E.U. has over Ireland and Checkoslavakia to make them do a U turn?
L kASIM
09. Nov, 2009
If I had a vote I would vote that we go it alone. I am 59 years of age and over the years I have seen most of jobs go because of Europe, out coal, steel, shipbuilding, and others. It is about time we were given a vote whether to stay in or get out now.
D. J. Howarth
09. Nov, 2009
Once upon a time in ,1975, this “Great” country of ours held a referendum on joining the “trading” organisation called the Common Market. This writer was derided at the time for saying that it is just an expensive club and we all will pick up the tab and smile while getting shafted. Where are these people now ?
All my working life the Labour party has done nothing to make my life better. At times it stood still, but under this bunch of crooks, hypocrites & shysters it has gone backwards. The Labour party still believe in the old discredited soviet ideals, and, boy, they sure want to put them into practice.
I think a revolution, ( non-violent) would make the whole lot of them sit up & start remembering who put them in their jobs in the first place
lizziepininion
09. Nov, 2009
How can it be legal for someone to step up and proclaim himself to be the Prime minister, an UNELECTED Prime minister, who can sign away the rights of the British people, if Tony Blair resigned WHY was there not an election for his position? and if he didn’t what right had he to just hand over the position of Prime minister to whomsoever he chose.
I thought this was a Democracy but now I begin to wonder why our boys are fighting in Afganistan ? to give the Afghans Democracy so I believed but where’s the Democracy in Britain and God help the Afghans because some of the Politicians are as corrupt as here
We have been SOLD out to subsidise the EU where is the Democracy in that
mr gardner
10. Nov, 2009
i see from the above comments all talk but what we require is action,starting with new labour being kicked out of office;
every body i know all says the same we have been sold down the river.ther will come a time when the ordinary will rebel with great violence and great loss of life
Ray
10. Nov, 2009
I cannot see why Cameron thinks he cannot hold a referendum.
He can, although ideally the question put on the referendum form might be different.
It ought to be:
Do you want to be in a European Union or not?
I think they are all afraid of what the answer will be, and that will mean no more cushy numbers in Brussels on fat expenses for our tired old politicians — Neil Kinnock springs to mind.
lizziepinion
10. Nov, 2009
for heavens sake don’t vote Tory, David Cameron has already reneged on the referendum that should tell you something about the Tories and that is before they think they are going to walk an election, how smug is that, and I say that because of the last fiasco Tory government I lived through, sky high interest rates, short term contracts, apprenticeships stopped because of closures, which is why electricians, brickies and joiners can now take you to the cleaners if you need a job done, all of the privatisation which has led to high transport charges for the public now if they want to take even a short journey on a bus, I know many will say Labour started it but they didn’t they continued many Tory policies as will the Tories continue with some of Labours policies that voters don’t like.
David Cameron is wrong you only need to read Vernon Colemans website to see we can get out of the EU.
sharon spicer
11. Nov, 2009
We need to get out of the Eu, roll on next year to vote labour out. They have sold our country down the river.
I can remember my father saying that this country will become the toilet of the world and that was over thirty years ago not one party has said to come out of the EU only UKIP.
Ian Campbell
12. Nov, 2009
Can I make one quibble about Trevor Kavanagh’s Foreword to Lee Rotherham’s book but one which is really a larger point?
Trevor writes that the EU is ’soon to become the United States of Europe’. This suggests that it will be something like the USA which I’m sure is not what Trevor intends.
The EU will become the United State (not States) of Europe because its treaties lead towards the abolition of nations and states and their replacement by overlapping regions directed by a central government. It will be more like China than the USA.
Although the USA experiences ‘federal creep’, the states do still have considerable local autonomy and there are considerable differences between them, e.g. what is a crime is defined differently in different states. Such lack of harmonisation would cause an EU bureaucrat to reach for a whole new batch of Directives if he or she were sent on a mission to the USA.
A United States of Europe, in which all the nations retained domestic autonomy and their diverse ways of doing things, but handed over specific, circumscribed powers, such as defence and foreign policy, to a federal government would be greatly preferablle to what the existing treaties commit us to.
George Curtis
12. Nov, 2009
So soon as Vaclav Klaus signed away Czech sovereignty the Russian paper Pravda greeted the news with the headline “Twenty years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the EU is now a reincarnation of the Soviet Union.”
Years ago Gorbachev described the EU as the USSR in western clothes.Every single thing that our forebears fought to keep, that we in our time might dwell as they did in theirs, ,as a free people, in a free Britain, governed by Britons in Britain’s best interest, and most importantly governed by consent through Parliamentary election, by means of which we, the electorate, may summarily dismiss those who would tax us and make our laws, which same uphold our rights and liberties equally against eachother, and ours, individually and collectively against the otherwise tyrannical power of government has been destroyed, not by an enemy overseas, but by the enemy within, our own Parliament. At the next election the electorate can sack the lot, pray God we do, but first the electorate has to understand how the Lisbon Treaty is going affect them in all that they do.
Tigra 07
12. Nov, 2009
Ian Campbell you make a good point
I would be very interested in what Americans think of us in the EU and the Lisbon Treaty
Especially since the special relationship with them would be threatened and probably branded illegal by EU
Would the Union eventually create a European army and take control of our nukes?
Bob
13. Nov, 2009
You’re all a bunch of xenophobic retrogrades.
Mike
14. Nov, 2009
Bob . The comments above reflect the opinions of the majority in the UK . Xenophobic ? No. It is not a fear of the unknown or what is different from ourselves that has us wishing to remain living in a democratic country . We know exactly where our goverment is forcing us to go without our consent . The EU is not now and never will be democratic .
Like it or not your view is a minority one . If you have a constuctive arguement as to why we should be part of the EU please do enlighten me . Although your comment leads me to think you haven’t .
Colin Mac
16. Nov, 2009
There has never, to my knowledge, been any sustained and credible argument/discussion put forward by UK politicians as to why the UK should be in the EU.
Unlike the EEC where there was significant debate, albeit it is evident that the pro EEC UK politicians and parties lied about the EEC objective and ultimate destination.
IF UK membership of the EU is so benefical, so essential then why were we taken into the EEC by deceit and kept in the EU by the same means?
An undemocratic and unaccountable political experiment which has failed.
Bring on the UK debate followed by the long promised referendum.
Colin Mac
16. Nov, 2009
An ‘Analysis’ program on the UK leaving the EU.
Be interesting to see how balanced the Beeb is !! ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8359160.stm
Analysis: Divorcing Europe will be broadcast on BBC Radio 4 on Monday 16 November 2009 at 2030 GMT and repeated on Sunday 22 November at 2130 GMT. Or download the free podcast.
Mark D
17. Nov, 2009
I like so many others, am boiling mad about the treacherously incompetent way the UK has been allowed to be devoured by the EU by successive British Prime Ministers. I believe the majority of intelligent people in the UK understand the issues and the implications, and simply want ‘out’ of the EU. We can do better as an independent nation. The problem is that mainstream party leaders are too feeble and frightened to make a stand. Is it not now time to demonstrate to them that the groundswell of public loathing of the EU is actually real? Surely, if London can be brought to a standstill by a few folks wanting to chase foxes around, or protesters ranting about nasty capitalists making too much money, or folks just proud to be gay, then something as fundamental as handing our country on a plate to be administered by EU bureaucrats would get people on the streets? Wouldn’t it be great to have some ‘big names’ marching along with thousands of people to Downing Street to demand our country back? Imagine Tony Benn alongside Daniel Hannan alongside Freddy Forsythe et al. Come on TPA, get organising!
marycurran
17. Nov, 2009
I have now read “Ten Years On” by Dr Lee Rotherham, and was impressed. We could possibly extricate ourselves in the way described by the book, it is not too late even though Lisbon has now gone through.
However he seems to be implying that David Cameron if elected could be persuaded to adopt this course. I have no such hope. There are several indications: if he was a genuine Eurosceptic, would he not have publicly supported President Klaus and urged him to delay ratification until after the next UK election? (Dr Rotherham says his failure to do so was a strategic mistake. I would say it was intentional).
Would be interested to know what everyone else thinks about this book.
marycurran
17. Nov, 2009
To Tigra 07
The US apparently wanted us in the EU, so that we could be a “strong voice” in the EU for US interests.
They’re quite happy to see us lose our liberty and suffer things that they’d never put up with themselves, as long as it serves their purpose.
Serves ‘em right if this backfires….
Yes the intention is for a EU army. Lisbon is more or less a total handover of everything.
Tigra 07
18. Nov, 2009
If they do intend to create a European Army what possible purpose could it serve?
As it is now, the EU can do little about countries passing laws they don’t agree with other than condemn them
Would the EU use their army for afghanistan?
no, EU countries left that to us; America, Canada and the French
A European army would have no purpose
Would Russia ever give up their nukes to the EU?
I doubt it
Tony Morrison
18. Nov, 2009
I don’t know what is this country coming to, we have been chaffed by the politician seven ways from Sunday and what are we doing about it. It is high time we the citizen of this great country raised up against these corrupt and dishonest MP
Tony Gittins
19. Nov, 2009
I’ve only just received my copy of “Ten Years On”, and I’m a notoriously slow reader, so won’t be able to express an opinion on it for a while, but can someone with a legal background answer this for me:
Did Brown actually have the authority to sign the Lisbon Treaty?
As an unelected PM I don’t think he had a mandate from the people to take this action; and, as MPs are (supposedly) elected to represent the wishes of their constituents, I don’t believe he or any other MP could have known what that was, without a referendum?
Just a thought!
Chris Jones
21. Nov, 2009
I’ve just read the book ‘Ten Years On’ and I’m stunned! I had no idea of the true extent of EU meddling in the UK. How the hell did it get this far? Gordon Brown and his cronies really are a band of treacherous simpletons who have, with the stroke of a pen, given away our country to a bunch of corrupt, lying thieves. The Tories are no better as they now refuse to give us a referendum. What a lot of spineless EU yes men we have in British Parliament. The only good thing to happen in the EU is Tony Blair not becoming president. Do you want your country back? Vote BNP. Unsavoury as it may seem, they are our only hope.
Tigra 07
21. Nov, 2009
Voting BNP is ridiculous
Unfortunately all the parties have something that needs to be combined for one party
UKIPs willingness to leave the EU like the people want
Labour’s equality (to an extent)
Tories honesty (rather than Labours slander of their opponents constantly)
And some of the BNPs Immigration policy (just the common sense parts)
Where is the party with all of these qualities?
Wasn’t there a time when MPs were elected by the people and for the people?
Do away with the parties and just have singular MPs speaking for their constituents
If yours doesn’t speak for you then you should be able to get him/her sacked and replaced
Tigra 07
21. Nov, 2009
While we’re at it, Harriet Harman needs to be sacked
When you can get a job just for being male, female, white, black, muslim, christian, gay, lesbian, transexual and anything else you can think of then equality gone too far
The best person for the job is the best candidate, not the person who is different
George C
22. Nov, 2009
I’ve read the book. I’ve read all your “debate/comments?”.
We’re virtually all in agreement.
So now what???
Are we all to continue ranting, or is there anyone who can suggest something feasible to get us out of this mess?
What will it take?
Civil unrest? Civil war? Lobbying? A new party? Blockade the ports? Leave it to the politicians? WHAT?!
Come on, we need a saviour ………..where are you?
Debate without conclusion is pointless.
WHAT IMMEDIATE ACTION CAN WE TAKE, AND WHO’S GOT THE GUTS TO LEAD IT ????????