The Oxford EU Debate
Posted on 02. Nov, 2009
On 20th October, we sponsored a debate at the prestigious Oxford Union Society on the motion “This house believes that there is life after Brussels”. Over 250 students packed into the Union Society’s debating chamber to hear the motion proposed by Dr Lee Rotherham and veteran eurosceptic Bill Cash MP, who were debating against Richard Laming of the European Movement and Edward McMillan-Scott MEP, Vice President of the European Parliament.
As you can imagine, it was a pretty impassioned debate. Lee Rotherham went into the huge costs of EU regulation, and the economic impact of the EU on British business, saying the question was not can Britain afford to take the risk of loosening ties with the EU but can we afford to continue with the current regime of hyper-regulation?
The examples of Norway and Switzerland, who enjoy the benefits of free trade with the EU whilst retaining control over much more of their own governance, were explored as proof that productive economic and political life is possible without the EU.
Richard Laming, an experienced campaigner for greater EU integration and a senior member of the European Movement [LINK: http://www.euromove.org.uk/ ] followed Lee by considering the experiences of Europe prior to the EU’s existence. Peace and prosperity, he argued, are thanks to the willingness of European nations to pool their sovereignty, and without the Union we would run the risk of falling once more into conflict.
Bill Cash MP took the floor with a surprising statement – despite being known as a man of principle, he made the practical rather than theoretical case for rejecting control by Brussels. “My father,” he said, “was killed in the Second World War, so I am extremely aware of the horrors of that time and second to none in my enthusiasm that European nations never fight one another again.” However, the question of how to restore faith in a participatory democracy could not be answered if we continue to allow decisions to be taken out of the hands of the people.
Edward McMillan-Scott MEP, who as Vice-President of the European Parliament is Britain’s most senior MEP followed Bill Cash to wrap up the debate. As the Evening Standard reported:
He did so resplendent in a pair of trews in the Macmillan tartan, which he explained had once belonged to Harold Macmillan himself, saying, “So, as a pro-European Conservative, I am not only walking in Harold Macmillan’s footsteps, I am doing so whilst wearing his very trousers.”
Mr McMillan-Scott explained his stance against David Cameron’s chosen allies in the European Parliament, saying that he wanted to see Britain taking a full and pro-active role in the EU. He deplored the dwindling of the Conservative Party’s pro-European wing, describing it as “more of a feather these days.” Britain, he argued, should be enthusiastically European, or else risk losing its access to world negotiations and being neglected in the increasingly global 21st Century.
After floor speeches from the audience, which ranged from the ridiculous to the sublime, the motion went to a vote. The motion was rejected – though at least one supporter of the motion was quick to point out that the week before, the Union had voted that it had full confidence in the Government…
21 Responses to “The Oxford EU Debate”
Leave a Comment
Blog Posts
Brought to you by
Trevor Welburn
03. Nov, 2009
The EU has not stopped our troops being killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. No, they’re not European countries but does it matter to the dead troops?
The National Debt of this country would be wiped out, in just over one year, by one year’s “subscription” to the EU!!
Nigel Sitwell
03. Nov, 2009
Students have always tended to espouse the unpopular option, to kick against the pricks and to hold views opposite to those of their parents’ generation. They are not in the real world yet, but when they enter it they will soon experience the true horrors of life in Orwell’s 1984, and despair at the realisation that — by then — there will probably be no way out.
George Rolph
03. Nov, 2009
Question.
Why debate now when it is too late? It is interesting how many protest groups such as the Bruges Group and others have left their powder dry until it was too late to fire it.
Roshan
04. Nov, 2009
No, I think that because the people have not vented their fury, that it is all building up. The Tories capitulation, unelected President Blair, jobs being taken from workers due to open borders. I hope this is unleashed at a referendum about the EU, where a strong question is asked. The door has been left slightly ajar, when for the last 30 years it had been slammed shut and locked after the initial referendum.
Mike
07. Nov, 2009
Can we get rid of Queen Brenda once were are all Europeans, ruled by Brussels?
Mike
09. Nov, 2009
The best place for Europe is the other side of the English Channel, but why are we repeatedly told that once we are in, we are in forever? After all, who would have forcast the break up of the former Soviet Union? If they can do it so can we.
George Curtis
12. Nov, 2009
Communism, red in tooth and claw, disappeared from sight with the fall of the Berlin Wall. Behind cover of the nonsense this generated the Frankfurt School of Marxism/Fabian Society doctrines took over with psychological warfare, aiming to continue the destruction of the nation state by undermining all that make them what they are, by perverting the teaching of history, literature, language, and any form of morality that might distinguish between right and wrong, by downgrading family values and motherhood family, in order to create a cultureless youth open to manipulation, through teaching, and the prevention of free speech by rendering any matter of doctrine/viewpoint that any ordinary person might wish to dispute socially unacceptable. We are now to be driven into
P.Allen
09. Nov, 2009
We havebeen invaded via the back door,after all the dodgy dealings by our MP’s perhaps we should be asking what interests they have in europe, and insist that they declare all interests.
Peter Fryett
09. Nov, 2009
We observe the political class around the world disregarding the wishes and aspirations of their countrymen with varying degrees of brutality starting with despots like Mugabi and the Burmese junta to name but two.
However. it is a common trend among politicians of the supposedly more democratic nations to treat their electorates with contempt by lying and ignoring the promises made to gain power and allowing a country’s right of self government to be gifted to unelected burocrats of dubious honesty.
Count me out of all EU law. It is not my law and is illegal.
Tony Gittins
09. Nov, 2009
It has been said before, that the original referendum was for Britain to join the Common Market – a group of nations who traded together in a form of self-protectionism; creating supply and demand between themselves, to guarantee a market for their products. I was too young to vote, but persuaded my parents to vote “Yes” – what a mistake-a to make-a…
Over the last 3 decades, the original parameters have been forgotten, in the rush for a largely faceless few to dip their snouts in the trough that has become the United States of Europe.
Given that the existing parameters had shifted so muchto be unrecognisable, of course we should have had a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty – a constitution for the U..S.E. – but, with the corrupt Labour government, currently being dragged kicking and screaming out of office, this was never going to happen – not while Blair, Brown, a Milliband, or 2, and maybe a Balls(-up) could see their future(s) on the gilded-by-us gravy train!
The Tories, bless ‘em, ARE correct in not having a referendum on the Treaty that has already been ratified before they can take over the reins – in the name of mischief-making, you could just imagine all the Grauniad(30-yr old running joke!)-readers, and pro-Europe plonkers voting AGAINST the Treaty, because, no matter that 100% of voters voted against it, nothing could be done!
In fairness – and, therefore, something unlikely to happen – when we finally manage to evict this sordid regime, the Tories would give us a referendum on our continued membership of the U.S.E. – i.e., do we want to remain in this bloated, corrupt travesty that has been foisted upon us, probably illegally; or do we want to regain our independence, self-esteem, health, wealth and happiness, BY LEAVING THE EU? – Yes, of course we do!!!
Edwin Jeffery
10. Nov, 2009
We critisise Dictators around the world but do nothing about the Dictators of Europe.This is suposed to be a democratic Europe as long as you do what they say. If you dare to vote against them (e.g.Ireland) go back again and again until they vote the way you want. Dont listen to the 700 million people in Europe do what we say or else.
The EU should be kicked out of this country, look at the mess we are in thanks to Blair & Brown who coudnt kee a promise if they tried. This labour party have totally ruined this country and given away our freedom that so many men & women gave their lives for
Caro
10. Nov, 2009
I don’t know who Queen Brenda is, but if “Mike” means the Queen, it wasn’t her fault that we’re stuck in the EU. I’m sure she (or Prince Charles, who talks a lot of sense) would like our sovereignty back. In fact, G. B. would be a better place if she could take back ultimate power & correct all the mistakes made by greedy politicians. Like the Lords, she already has status, so doesn’t need to fight for it or sell out. The sooner we get out of the EU the better, but how?
George C
22. Nov, 2009
I understand only two signatures were required from the UK to accept the Lisbon Treaty. . . . .Herr Brown’s and the Queen’s.
So what’s the story behind the Queen’s signature??
Anyone?
Douglas
11. Nov, 2009
Why, in the name of God, should democraticlly elected politicians, serving a democratic nation that has been created from a thousand years of history; and against the peoples authority, throw it all away to a foreign land ruled by unelected, sleasy, corrupt dictators?
For the last 20 years I have been asking anyone who will listen, what is in it for them? The Kinnocks are a good example to that question.
The main problem is, the British people are the brave of the brave on the field of battle, but when it comes to conflict with authority, they bow their heads and walk away, for how long, who knows.
They say we can’t throw out the so called Treaty. Yes we can, it is just a piece of paper. They say it is legal; nothing is more legal than the will of the people.
Like Italy with their outrage over the ban on the crucifix, our people will begin to see the reality of Brussels dictatorship. On problem against this is the amount of immigrants in this country, who to a man are in favour of the EU for their own special reasons On the subject of immigrants, have you noticed how many of our political leaders are sons and daughters of immigrants, who in turn are very pro EU.
Regarding the Oxford EU Debate
They are not going to vote against their paymasters are they.
davy mac
15. Nov, 2009
the second world war was fought to stop the third reich taken over europe and making europe one state. as far as i am concerned this labour government has in the past only going to be satisfied when the red army marched down whitehall now they appear only to be content when the germans take over europe. how long before brussells is no longer deemed to be the centre of europe and the eu headquarters move to berlin then hitlers dream will be realised blair brown straw and millieband should be arrested and charged with treason for selling out their country
The average British voter
16. Nov, 2009
oops! Have I stumbled into the lunatics’ asylum?
A short message to any of our European friends who may accidentally find themselves reading this blog. These views are not representative of educated British people. Most of us have moved on from second world war propaganda and work daily with friends from across Europe. We know that we have far more in common with our German and Dutch neighbours than with Americans or Australians (although they are our friends too!).
We look forward to working with you to build a strong EU that protects European values of democracy, freedom of speech, market capitalism and la dolce vita…
average englishman
16. Nov, 2009
While we may have more in common with Europe than America or Australia do we really need their laws and customs. The arguements regarding our sovereignty should be directed at maintaining a level of independence within the framework of European Unity and not total subjugation. Was that not the aim of the original planners and it this current crop of legislators who have corrupted this process
adams
16. Nov, 2009
Why is Bill Cash still in the party that has and is selling our country out to the EUSSR ? he and all likeminded conservatives are giving this rubbish party a legitimacy it does not deserve. When will the excrement hit the fan ?
Never so it seems. Britain is disappearing without even a whimper. Cash is just one more time serving politician as are all the others. general election NOOOOOWWWWWWWW.
graham wood
16. Nov, 2009
How odd! “Mr Average British Voter”, whose views are so intelligent that he declines to attach himself to a name, believes that those who disagree with his rose coloured view of the EU must be deemed “lunatics”
Perhaps he can justify with a measure of sound reason and argument why British taxpayers should shell out £6.5 Billion p.a. for the doubtful benefit of inheriting a corrupt, undemocratic, and parasitic bureaucracy without their permission, leaving aside the countless other £Billions.
Even better, perhaps one of his European friends could offer an answer to that? Please, bring ‘em on !
macroderma
16. Nov, 2009
@TABV
More in common with the Dutch and Germans?
The common heritage? No, I think William of Orange had little affect
The common language? No
Common legal system? No
Common constitution?No
Common banking system? No
Common education?No
Seems to me that the average british voter is distinctly ill-informed
terence patrick hewett
19. Nov, 2009
@ The average British voter
You say that these are not the views of educated British people. I am an educated British person. I have two honours degrees in hard sciences and a masters in mathematical analysis. I have lived and worked on four continents. I read Latin, Greek, Flemish, Old English and Middle English. I have read widely on history, philosophy, religion and literature. I can navigate a boat by dead reckoning, ride a horse, throw a pot, paint in oils and egg tempera; and I’m not a bad blacksmith either. And I want to see the back of the EU for good and all. Nothing personal; it’s simply that I do not have a slave mentality